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Spotify’s Head Of Music Explains How To Get On Playlists

This article is more than 4 years old.

Whether it’s New Music Friday or Ultimate Indie, a Spotify playlist selection can quite literally change an artist’s career overnight and reel in significant revenue. But how does an artist get onto a top playlist? There’s a shroud of mystery surrounding Spotify’s curated playlists and the editors who program them. All sorts of questions arise about their decision-making process, the algorithms and the best ways to become known on the platform.

So I met with Jeremy Erlich, Spotify’s new Co-Head of Music Strategy, to demystify the process. In the midst of a hectic Grammy week, Erlich was game to thoughtfully respond to these lingering questions I’ve had for years, alongside so many artists and songwriters. Here’s our chat:

Danny Ross: What do you see as Spotify’s role in the world of playlisting and editorial?

Jeremy Erlich: Our philosophy is that any good song should have a playlist where it can start and should have a path to the top of the pyramid — no matter where it's from in the world, no matter what genre. We have the best editors in the world listening to thousands of songs per week and then curating them.

Ross: There are some who think that the Spotify editorial team are the new gatekeepers, and that one needs to know those curators personally to advance their career. What would you say to them?

Erlich: I'd say they're wrong. I don't believe on the editorial side that we're gatekeepers. We're connectors. We're the ones who should know what song goes in the right place so that they can have a path to the top. It's an honorable and fun mission. We're always cognizant that the artists do all the hard work. They're the blood that comes through our veins and we're the conduit.

Ross: So knowing or contacting a curator doesn’t improve your odds?

Erlich: No. The playlist submission tool is the only way we review music. People may text me their song, but I tell them they need to submit it in the tool because that's how you get playlisting. Editorial decisions are based purely on the quality of the song and its fit in the playlist. I was just telling a label that everyone emailing me doesn't increase your chances of getting on a playlist at all.

I think we show it through songs that have gone to #1, whether it's Arizona Zervas or Tones and I. No one was pushing those songs. They organically raised their hand and rose to the top. It's just a testament to the democratization of playlisting.

Our big playlists include a bunch of major label acts, indie acts, English language, Spanish language, neither. It's an amazing time in the industry where it doesn't really matter where the song comes from. It's really hard to break as an artist but hopefully we created a world where everyone has a fair shot. That's the goal. 

Ross: There are third-party promotional companies convincing artists to pay them to pitch to Spotify for playlisting. What's your take on that?

Erlich: I hate it. They're just scamming artists. There's absolutely no promo in the streaming world. We don't talk to any of these people at all. They're scams. If I could snap my fingers and make them all disappear, I would. When people use our name falsely we try to stop them. If anyone tells you to pay for playlisting, it's a lie. Going through the pitch tool is the only way.

Ross: What are metrics you look at to determine next steps for a song on a playlist?

Erlich: We'll look at the time people spend on the songs — it takes 30 seconds of listening for it to count as an official stream. We also look at the “lean-back versus lean-forward,” which is whether people are actively searching for the song or just hearing it from editorial tools. Then there’s the skip ratio, but it's all relative. The first song on a playlist will always have the highest skip ratio because people are engaged. But no one's still looking at the screen by the last song. 

Ross: How many playlists does Spotify curate?

Erlich: We have 3,000 Spotify playlists. But there are also a lot of independent playlists. Fresh Finds actually takes into account tastemakers who are not internal. It's a great way to leverage the data we have, and we love the fact that so many of our users are not only fans but also really knowledgeable with great taste. 

We started with 100% human curation, now there's more algorithm and machine learning. We do “algatorial” — which is human curated and then machine personalized. One example of that type of personalized playlist is Beast Mode. Yours might not look like mine, but the songs are picked by our editors.

Ross: Is there a hierarchy of playlists that songs make their way through?

Erlich: I wouldn't say there's a hierarchy. And I wouldn't consider one better or worse, whether it's a playlist with 2,000 users or Today's Top Hits with 25 million. They're just different audiences and different sounds. Even niche in a global scale is pretty big.

But there's definitely a system of interconnectivity. It's like a gigantic pretzel, intertwined in different ways. The songs can go up, down or sideways. Historically you've got big pop playlists like Today's Top Hits, and they're flagships in their own rights. And then we have a bunch of genre playlists. Last year with Lorem and Pollen we started doing cross-genre playlists. And we’ve been thinking of experimenting with cross-generational playlists as well. Like can you put Billie Eilish and Fiona Apple in the same playlist?

Ross: Do you consider sequencing the songs, and how they sound next to each other?

Erlich: Absolutely. I'd say our curators spend 40% of the time choosing the songs and 60% of the time sequencing. People rack their brain about it. It's an art and a science. 

Ross: How do the playlisting teams work across different countries?

Erlich: We have editorial teams in every country. And we have global curation groups where everyone listening to pop music, for example, will share what's happening in different countries. Someone on our Australian team found Tones and I, put it on a local playlist, it did really well. Then someone in Scandinavia really liked it, put it on their playlist and it just started snowballing. Something like 8 weeks after release, “Dance Monkey” was #1 on Today's Top Hits on the cover.

Ross: Your title is Head of Music Strategy. What is the job exactly?

Erlich: The role is learning how to curate the music experience for users, and partner with artists in the right way all while driving the innovation of the platform. Spotify has really been responsible for most of the industry innovation in the past decade. And I have an opportunity to play a small role in a company that does an immense amount of good for music and the music community. Marian Dicus and I are running the team together now. She's amazing. I manage the editorial staff and some of the business functions, while Marian looks after partner relations with artists, labels and publishing. It’s asking, “Where do we want to take our editorial ecosystem and what tools should we be developing?”

Ross: What are some of those new tools?

Erlich: For example, look at visual identity. Things like canvas, enhanced playlists and storylines are all feature innovations that deepen the bond between artists and fans. Ultimately we're trying to make sure that bond is strong.

On the creative side, Spotify For Artists gets improved all the time. Lizzo was reciting her stats at our Best New Artist party. She knows how many monthly users she has. That transparency we brought to the music world may have been lacking in the past. Artists and managers and teams really love that.

Ross: What were you doing before Spotify?

Erlich: I spent the previous 8 years running corporate development at Universal and as CFO at Interscope. But I was actually an investment banker before that. Thought I'd try it out, but next thing I knew I was 7 years in and realized I didn't enjoy it. Then in 2007 my bank advised Universal on a deal. I walked into that building and I was like, "Holy crap, you can actually work in this industry?" No one from my family was in entertainment in any way, shape or form. I didn't know it was a thing. So I asked, "How do I work here?"

In 2011 when Lucian Grainge and Boyd Muir got the global jobs at Universal, I got a call asking if I'd like to move to L.A. and work in the music industry. I said yes. I think I'd been to L.A. once in my life before. All my friends asked if the music industry was dead, and I said, "No, it will come back!"

Ross: Was it difficult to enter a new field like that?

Erlich: I was in the right place at the right time. My first few years at Universal was dealing with the acquisition of EMI. Despite the industry being at its very bottom, I was selling what everyone wanted and meeting everyone across the industry. I got an accelerated lesson in the music business, which was shifting so much.

In 2012, Spotify had around 5 million subscribers and 85% were in Scandinavia. It was a great time to be meeting people because managers and artists — people who normally wouldn't want to meet with a finance guy — were all asking me to explain the new realities of the business.

Ross: It seems like other parts of the industry are now molding around the way Spotify operates. How is the company handling that?

Erlich: It's a responsibility but we try to ignore it. My friends on the label side tell me they set up streaming teams that are bigger than their radio teams. That's great, but we're just trying to focus on our mission — and that's making sure artists and songs find the right fans. Our north star goal is having a million creators living off of their art.

Ross: Is it strange to see songs become hits on commercial radio because they playlisted well on Spotify?

Erlich: I actually still listen to radio, I don't think it's dead. But the time for a song to get to radio is so much longer than the time for a song to move on playlists. And it’s an expensive slog. A lot of times there are songs that peak on streaming, but then start at radio 4 weeks later when the fans have already moved on. One of the big challenges for the industry is how you marry those two timeframes. When it does, it's amazing. But radio has less slots and there's a lot more repetition.

Ross: What do you make of artists themselves in the creative process shifting their productions, songs and arrangement in order to optimize streaming? Like intros being skipped, songs getting shorter, or going to the chorus quicker.

Erlich: There was talk of the “Spotify Sound.” I don't really believe in all that. I think an artist's efforts should be toward making the best piece of work they can. There are no tricks. Great art always cuts through all the noise. The rest all happens naturally.

Ross: Call me a cynical New Yorker. I want to believe the cream will always rise but I'm a little less optimistic about it.

Erlich: It's hard not to be cynical because there are so many people that don't make it. But it's hard not be optimistic when you hear all the stories like Arizona Zervas living in Phoenix, playing to 100 people and then his song became #1. It happens more and more. All the winds need to be blowing in the right direction. But when they do, anyone from anywhere in the world can make it. There are no rules except great work and consistency.

Ross: So what advice would you give to an aspiring artist trying to improve their chances at playlisting?

Erlich: An artist should have great work — the music always comes first — but also the right visual identity. Plus touring. Get in front of fans to show that it works in real life too. That's so important. You can be the most talented person in the world but you need to connect with your audience.

Ross: Why is the live show important for streaming? 

Erlich: I think the more you tour, the more you solidify your base of fans and they'll always come back to your music. Creating that emotional connection lasts forever. I'm still a fan of bands from 25 years ago. Live is absolutely a big part of that. It's important for artists financially, creatively and for the connection.

The more you tour, the more people will stream your music. And the more people stream your music, the more you'll tour. 

Ross: Wrapping up, are you optimistic about the future of the music industry and the ability for artists to make money?

Erlich: I’m probably the most bullish person in the industry. I think we're only at the beginning of what's going to be the golden age of the music business. There will be more choices and more artists in more genres in more countries breaking. Having 1 million creators living off of their work is a real achievable goal.

We're just scratching the surface — I still meet people who don't stream. But I think everyone who has functioning ears will be on a streaming service over the next 20 years. The amount of money that comes into the system will continue to keep growing for a very long time. Artists are going to benefit immensely from that. And artists who couldn't make a living before will be able to. That's the ambition.

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